The BitClout Podcast

BitClout Episode 5

BitClout Episode 5: Micah Spruill

Epsode 5: Micah Spruill

Epsode 5: Micah Spruill

With me today on the Bitclout podcast is my good friend and business partner, Micah Spruill.

Micah has been a savvy investor in the tech and crypto space for a very long time, and he’s been very successful. He’s also an angel investor, and has invested in a lot of startups through XSquared Ventures.

When I first got on the platform and saw Micah actively posting, I first thought he must be one of the investors. Why else would a man this busy be spending this much time on a fairly new platform?

I was surprised to hear that he wasn’t an investor, but it was also a big aha moment for me because if this savvy crypto guy was this invested in the platform, then he must really see a lot of potentials there, and I was right.

It’s awesome to hear  Micah tell of how he came to learn of Bitclout and how he got started on the platform. In this interview, he also talks about the potential he sees in Bitclout, and how he thinks the platform will drive innovation as more people are able to easily invest in startups.

He shares his concern for Bitclout from a regulatory standpoint, and the policies he thinks the developers should have in place to satisfy the regulators.

“That’s the thing with regulators, they’re usually years behind, and with technology, it moves parabolically.”

He also shares what he thinks about the developers being anonymous, and why he isn’t worried about the legitimacy of the platform. Micah also talks about the future of Bitclout, what could happen if the developers pulled out, and why he doesn’t think the platform could ever be fully decentralized.

He isn’t just making assumptions here, he’s calculated the potential growth of the platform and shares his calculations with us. Also he explains what a bonding curve is, and how high he sees the Bitclout token trading up to. He has gone into this fully informed, and I learned a thing or two talking to him. I hope you enjoy this episode and find it as informative as I did.

Epsode 5: Micah Spruill

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

bill Deignan, Micah Spruill, platform, people, bitcoin, token, investing, founders, market cap, crypto, bitclout, twitter, money, anonymous, coins, price, money, funds

SPEAKERS

Bill Deignan, Micah Spruill

Bill Deignan  0:00

Right, Micah, welcome. How’s it going, man?

Micah Spruill  0:01

Thank you. Good. Glad to be here.

Bill Deignan  0:02

In my intro, I did let everybody know that, you know, we have a business relationship and friendship and we’ve known each other for a while but, you know, aside from that, when I first got on the platform, I found you. For some reason, you popped up in the feed and I was like, “Oh there’s Micah”. And you were just posting like crazy, and some seriously legit stuff, you know, that I would expect from you about investing in capital and all the things that a person that is in your business should be talking about. So I saw it and I thought, “Man, he’s an investor in this whole big thing”.  I know you well enough to know all the things you’re involved in and how busy you are. So I was like, why in the hell would he be spending so much time doing on this platform? And then you and I spoke a day or so later, and you let me know that you’re not an investor in this platform which was like an Aha! the moment for me. I was like, holy cow, there must really be something here if Micah is this invested, you know, timewise into this platform. So what do you think, man?

Micah Spruill  1:23

Yeah, so a good friend of mine–I actually invested in his angel fund–is really connected in the space, you know. Kind of spends time on the West Coast with all those types of startups and he told me about this several weeks ago, and I went and checked it out and thought it was interesting. I looked at the bonding curve of the distribution scheduled tokens, and I thought “Okay, this is cool, I could see this catching on like wildfire”. So I put it aside for a few days and I came back and the token price was even higher and I thought, “Okay, I see where this is going”. So I jumped in and invested in it. When I say that, I mean, you know, I just put some Bitcoin on the platform and bought some bitclout, and that was all I did for the first few days, just to kinds of like, test the waters. Once I got more comfortable with the platform and kind of saw, you know, where money was flowing and how it was working, that’s when I started investing in the creator coins. And that’s when I started posting a lot because I could see the potential. There were probably only… There were either several 100 active users at that time or maybe a few 1000. And when you have a platform like this, you know, I’ve been involved in a bunch of this kind of new platforms that pop up, you know, over the last several years in the crypto space and if you can get in early and either build a name or figure out the way the platform works, you can do very, very well. So that’s the potential I saw. So that’s why I started getting pretty active several weeks ago.

Bill Deignan  3:03

Yeah, that makes sense. I knew that much about you to think that would be the case. But what does it mean for the person who… As we see this thing grow, the next thing you know, there are 8 million people on it. What’s really in it for the people that are not content creators, not on it to try and generate interest in themselves, but that are just users like a person that might just follow their Twitter feed and see what is on there?

Micah Spruill  3:37

Yes, so this is interesting because up until this point, as a general user of Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, TikTok, you know you go on there, and you follow all these content creators, they’re the ones making money, you know. All the value on that platform is accruing to them, and it’s accruing to the shareholders of the platform. If it’s a publicly traded company like Twitter, it’s accruing to the shareholders, and the content creators, like Kim Kardashian who is getting paid per likes or views or whatever. With this, it’s fascinating because you can earn money as a content creator, but on the flip side as you mentioned, what do you do if you just like following and seeing these things? You can invest in those content creators and actually, you know, a value will accrete to your account, the more popular better content they produce. So that’s an interesting thing. We’ve never been able to directly invest in content creators in this manner so I think that opens up a whole new realm of possibilities.

Bill Deignan  4:51

Hmm, yeah. I mean, it just quite simply gives the person who’s been the product for YouTube and Twitter now to become, you know, to be monetized themselves. Meaning the user data, you know that we’re all products of Facebook and the like.

Micah Spruill  5:14

Yeah, so I view it kind of like, and I wrote about this on my feed, but to me, it’s taking, like what I already do as an angel investor and investing in startups, it’s taking that a step further and more personal where you’re investing directly in the individual. So there’s a lot of times I’ll see on Twitter, or Instagram, or whatever, a product or startup that I really, really like and think, oh, man, you know, would have been awesome to have been able to back them, but those are all private deals. Same for individuals, you know, there are people I see in the crypto space who either just started a podcast, or they started, you know, releasing charts and analysis that is really, really high-quality content, and they’re young and kind of undiscovered, so I’ll follow them and I would think, man, it would be great to have been able to invest in whatever platform as well as their podcast show or their charting software, or whatever it is and now with bitclout, you can actually directly invest in the things that you, you know, feel have the most value on that platform. And as a user of it, you’re gaining value. You know you’re just having access to it and viewing it, but also, you know, gaining value from everyone else investing in that as well and using it. So it’s like you become an angel investor in people rather than products in startups. Which again, you know, there might be other platforms out there that have tried this, I’m not sure, but this one is the first one I’ve seen come across my desk that has caught on to this quickly and has this much traction out of the gate. That’s really exciting.

Bill Deignan  6:54

Yeah. And knowing what you’ve been involved in, which I’m sure people can find if they go check out your websites, which are sf2capital.com. Would that be a good place to go?

Micah Spruill  7:11

Yeah, s2fcapital is my digital asset fund. There, we invest in liquid digital assets like Bitcoin, Ethereum, and others, X squared ventures are where we’ve done a lot of our angel investing. I’ve done a lot of angels investing through that and also just personally.

Bill Deignan  7:28

Right, right. I haven’t caught up with you in a while and I looked at that the other day and I was like, holy cow, you guys are way into a lot of projects. So you know, I bring that up to say, you know, if you’re interested in learning more about what Micah’s involved in, that’s a good place. At the same time, I’m just pointing out that this is somebody who’s been a savvy investor in this tech and crypto world for a long time and has been very successful. So knowing that–and your network’s important–what do you think your network of contacts thinks of your involvement with this at this stage?

Micah Spruill  8:09

So I’m in a group, it’s kind of a think tank, there’s about 20 of us. Everyone’s a builder, or founder, or some sort of, you know, executive in the space. And it’s interesting, we have a very, very small population of those 20 individuals that have either looked at bitclout or even gotten on it, and that tells me pretty early because all these guys are the early movers and everything in the space, so that is kind of a barometer of how early we are in my opinion. A handful of them have either, you know, gotten on the platform and started, you know, investing in creator coins or just investing directly in the bitclout. And then I would say, several of them are aware of the platform but slightly dismissive, or just not really interested. They might be distracted by NFT’s right now or something else happening in this space. And then there’s the other probably 20, or 30, or 40%, of the group that has just not been following at all. So that kind of tells me, you know, among early movers in the space, kind of where we’re at. And none of them have outright said, “Hey, this is a scam”, I think we’re past that. Now, it’s to be determined, we don’t know what the founders are going to do with this technology and with the treasury. They’re now sitting on a check today that looks like over $225 million was raised. So there’s that big question mark.

Bill Deignan  9:40

That’s liquidity injected in through Bitcoin?

Micah Spruill  9:44

Correct. You can see the amount of Bitcoin sent into the address for the bitclout treasury and it’s north of 200 million right now so that’s a big pot. There have been projects in the past that raise a bunch of money for anonymous founders and then they start building a product and disappear. We’ve seen that a handful of times. And so that’s where people are very quick to say this smells like a scam, especially when you have anonymous founders. I think there is a good reason why they’ve been anonymous so far. I think it’s smart. We can presume who the founders are but we don’t know how big the team is yet. But all that said, it’s kind of to be determined what they do with that treasury. And so if they’re responsible with it and they give back to the community and do things and build products, and, you know, bring it to market. By proxy, I’m aware of some of the team members and how they are, and it sounds like they’re actually building a real product. And these are world-class engineers from what I can tell, so that’s good to me. That tells me that this is legitimate, that they’re going to be fiscally responsible for what they’re raising. So all that said when I hear people on Twitter or in different circles go “Hey, this is an outright scam”, I don’t feel it, it doesn’t seem that way. I think a lot of folks have kind of a knee jerk reaction of “Hey, I don’t like my likeness on this platform. I went on there and saw that they copied my profile from Twitter, and I’m on here now and it’s really bothersome” that’s going to happen. With any of these startups in the space especially, there’s kind of a “you build it and ask for forgiveness rather than permission”. I mean, half of the projects in this space would never have come to fruition had they asked for permission, they just wouldn’t. So you know, this is an ecosystem that is known for pushing the bounds and having to ask for forgiveness as they innovate, and I think bitclout’s a great example of that. Now you have a bunch of individual people who might be, you know, upset about that, and you’re issuing cease and desist letters which we’ve seen before. That’s gonna happen, it’s not a big deal in my opinion; it doesn’t mean it’s a scam. So that’s my opinion on that and kind of the opinion of those in my circle. It’s not a scam but it’s definitely still like a to-be-determined whether this thing really takes off and ends up being a great investment for those that have come in and those that are in right now. You have a lot of very early venture capitalists and angels that came in, so people are a little upset about that. But I mean, show me any project that’s coming to market that didn’t have folks that were in early and benefited from that. That’s the case with pretty much every startup you’ve ever seen, you know, that’s the case with pretty much every crypto token. Bitcoin was fairly distributed, but you still have folks that literally got in day one, day two, day three, and are sitting on, you know, billions of dollars in Bitcoin or hundreds of millions of dollars in Bitcoin, that’s totally fine. I think that’s fair. If you’re close to the source, you benefit from that. So that doesn’t really bother me about this project. The one concern from a lot of people is what are they going to do with those profits? I can totally see, and this is what I wrote about on my wall the other day “When they open up the ability to withdraw and get liquidity, what does that look like? Are these early investors going to sell their tokens? Are they going to sit?” So that’s again, one of those to be determined things, but I’m not so much worried about it being an outright scam, and I’m not so much worried about early investors just completely abandoning the projects, taking their money and leaving.

Bill Deignan  13:51

Hmm, yeah. I guess it’ll be all about the timing.

Micah Spruill  13:56

Totally agree. I think the team is very smart. I think they will likely bring this thing to market in the right way. In this space, we’ve had a lot of prior experiments that you can kind of glean from and see what works and what didn’t, so I expect the team to be able to kind of look back and figure out how they want to structure this. I think the way they took it to market was really, really awesome. I think it was genius.

Bill Deignan  14:26

Yeah and certainly an experience. I guess several things about it have been intentionally mysterious. You know we all need some conspiracy theories to talk about I guess. So, I think a lot about what the regulators are potentially going to be seizing upon. I mean, it’s a little early for them to even be on their radar yet but this seems like it could really venture into insider trading and market manipulation type territory that they love.

Micah Spruill  15:14

On the greater coins?

Bill Deignan  15:15

Yeah.

Micah Spruill  15:17

Yeah, so it’s interesting. I’m not super familiar with the law but as I understand it, like in the art world, art is not a security. And so when you get into the NFTs- And this is something that, again, is kind of a to-be-determined thing from regulators like, how are they going to handle NFTs? Because that’s where this gets interesting when you’re kind of creating art or you’re tokenizing yourself. Is that a security? Is it not? I know that when you tokenize art, or you tokenize- I’ve seen platforms that tokenize ownership of classic cars, for example, the tokenization part of that, owning a piece of it, is security. So that’s where this gets interesting. If you tokenize yourself, is that security or not? And how do you regulate that? You know, how do you prevent people from tokenizing themselves? And how do you do that in a regulated manner? It’s crazy; I don’t know.

Bill Deignan  16:24

What I think concerns me most is that it could get some countries so flummoxed by the whole thing that they just say “We’re gonna start putting people in jail and we’re gonna shut this down”.

Micah Spruill  16:40

Yeah. They’re still stuck on everything that happened in like, 2016/2017 with the ICO. That’s the thing with regulators, they’re usually years behind, and with technology, it moves parabolically. So they’re still dealing with issues and regulations that are multiple years old and then you just pile this on top, I mean, I don’t know how they’re going to keep up in a responsible manner. As you said, there are often these knee-jerk reactions because they’re like, “We don’t know what’s going on, we don’t like this, we’re not comfortable with it. We’ve heard some people have lost money so just ban the whole thing”. Yeah, that happened in 2016, 2017 and then they backed off. Since then there has been some safe harbor kind of regulations that have come about to kind of allow people to innovate in the sandbox without getting in trouble. That might have to happen here where it’s just like, “We don’t know how to handle this right now so we’re going to create a sandbox where people can innovate in it, but you have to play within these rules”, that might happen. What I hope doesn’t happen is the common knee-jerk reaction from regulators where they just say “To hell with it, we’re just gonna ban this” because that creates a regulatory arbitrage. When you do that, people with crazy innovation will move to other countries and the US in particular will lose the innovative advantage that they typically have in technology. People will go and start building these things in Switzerland as they did with the tokenization event. So they’ll go to Singapore, or Panama or wherever, you know, Cayman Islands. That’s not what you want.

Bill Deignan  18:20

Right. So what do you think about New York, for instance? They make it hard enough just for people to buy bitcoin, what do you think will happen here with KYC, AML, anti-money laundering, all that sort of stuff?

Micah Spruill  18:38

Good question. I think the biggest risk with a platform like this is less SEC risk. The SEC is notorious for coming around and, you know, giving fines, slapping people on the wrist. When you start talking about AML and KYC, that get into the FinCEN territory, the DOJ, and your Department of Financial Services, those are the folks who don’t want to mess with. You do not want to get on their bad side. SEC, you can deal with them. They’re more friendly, more reasonable but when you start talking about DOJ and FinCEN, that’s where you can get in a lot of trouble. I mean, that’s what’s been going on with Bitmax right now and some of the other exchanges where they just had very crappy or very little AML KYC policies in place, and now they’re paying the price for that. That would be my fear for something like this. What have these folks done–these folks being the founders–to ensure that funds being sent into this platform are run through some sort of chain analysis, even if very, very basic chain analysis to make sure you’re not taking in any dirty funds. Forget checking people’s driver’s licenses or passports or anything like that, just a simple chain analysis on all the funds coming in and rejecting transactions that are dirty, that’s a step in the right direction. I think that would be a very smart way of doing it. But if you willingly or knowingly take funds for money laundering purposes by somebody else, that’s not good, and that would not be good for the platform. So I don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes but my hope is that they’re going to be filtering that.

Bill Deignan  20:32

Yeah. I would like to thank some of these big giant VCs that have jumped into this have been pretty vocal and involved in what that is, I can’t imagine they’re not like it.

Micah Spruill  20:46

I agree.

Bill Deignan  20:47

Because they would be the type of people that would get carted off to jail by a cranky regulator.

Micah Spruill  20:56

Yeah, there’s definitely risk there and that’s one thing that gives me some comfort in all of this. Knowing who some of the backers are and saying “Okay, well if their due diligence team is okay with making a direct investment if they’re okay with this, then there’s some level of legitimacy with what’s going on” from a regulatory standpoint.

Bill Deignan  21:21

Yeah, definitely. I think without at least that much knowledge of this thing, I think most people would shy away from it.

Micah Spruill  21:32

Yeah. To kind of follow on that, you know, the way to launch a project in today’s world, especially when pushing the bounds is you either go fully anonymous and you launch it as a DAO, a decentralized autonomous organization, or you don’t and you just try and follow as many of the rules as you can and ask for forgiveness along the way, because if you’re not fully anonymous, then there’s always a thread to check, you know. They’ll come after someone. So you either have to go all the way in one bucket or all the way in the other in my opinion or have enough of a treasury to defend yourself when you need to get out of trouble, which a lot of these big products have done. They’ve raised a lot of money, and now they can afford lobbyists or legal defense against regulators to kind of figure out “Okay, yes, sorry, we messed up, but how do we fix this? And what new rules can we put in place to allow us or the space to innovate in this way?” We’ve seen that so many times.

Bill Deignan  22:37

Yeah. It makes me think of some quotes I heard. I might get this backward but it’s someone’s saying “The best thing Satoshi Nakamoto ever did was remaining anonymous, the second one was creating Bitcoin”. It May have been the other way around, but those were two brilliant ideas. So we’ve talked about the fear and uncertainty and doubt part of this, the FUD, let’s talk about possibilities now. What do you see as being some of the most exciting things that you didn’t even think of until the past week that could happen here on this platform?

Micah Spruill  23:17

So first off, let’s talk about the bitclout token itself. If you look at the distribution schedule, I’ve got it posted on my wall and I don’t know how accurate it is, it came through one of my sources that I think got it from some related source from the team, but anyway, if it’s following that distribution schedule, it relates market cap to token price so right now, I think we’re probably somewhere shy of a billion dollars based on token price, you know, it might be at like 850 million to 900 million, somewhere around there. Again, I could be totally wrong on this, this is just based on that schedule. For a platform like this in a bull market when they launched, I mean, the timing couldn’t have been better. I could see this easily trading up to 10 billion or north of 10 billion, it is truly unique.

Bill Deignan  24:15

Overall market cap?

Micah Spruill  24:17

Overall market cap. I can see it trading up to that this year, in the middle of this bull run. It’s truly unique. I mean, we have all sorts of different tokens. We have D-Fi tokens, we have exchange tokens, I mean, you name it, we’ve got it, privacy, all that. And so this is one area where it’s been underserve, and it’s unique, so what is that worth? I don’t know. But I’ll tell you, you know, different sectors, like the platform tokens that we see on coin market cap that people are building applications on top of, which I would consider this a platform, those are trading- those are generally- for the larger ones they’re a $5 billion market cap on up to Ethereum which is  220-250 million. So that tells me something like this has a lot of legs to it if the adoption catches on and people really kind of figure out what’s happening here, and out of the gate just buying into the bitclout token and sitting on it for a while, assuming this hockey stick growth we’re seeing continues, I think people are going to do very, very well, just sitting on the Bitclout token itself. I look at the bitclout token as kind of the Bitcoin of the platform, and I look at the crater coins as all coins.

Bill Deignan  25:40

Alright, so I want to stop you there just so you can clarify, what about it, like for the uninitiated, in the bonding curve part of this… In more simple terms for people, how they understand how the price of this exponentially increases at certain thresholds, could you explain that?

Micah Spruill  26:03

Yeah. So bonding curve is essentially the distribution schedule of the token. So it’s basically how much money and drives the token up by how much price. It’s just a simple algorithm that the platform uses.

Bill Deignan  26:18

But for me when I read it, it was every million tokens distribute, the price doubles, right?

Micah Spruill  26:28

Yes, yes.

Bill Deignan  26:30

But it’s more incremental than that?

Micah Spruill  26:33

It’s more right now. I’ll pull it up on my screen.

Bill Deignan  26:43

Pull up your screen.

Micah Spruill  26:52

Scroll down to where you see a screenshot of the spreadsheet.

Bill Deignan  26:57

Yeah, well, that’s probably a while back, you’ve been pretty prolific on this thing. Oh, there we go. There we go.

Micah Spruill  27:03

So if you look at this, we’re at, I don’t know, $150-$160 per for bitclout. So that’s the left column, and then the market cap is in the middle, and then that’s the number of tokens on the right. We’re somewhere around, you know, we’re between 7 million and 8 million tokens in circulation. Now I have read, someone did some chain analysis on the platform, it looks like there was an 8 million coin pre-mine done. I don’t know how that relates to this, but I think this is a matter of how many tokens are in circulation. So if you look here, our token price is between the $102.40 cent range and the $204.80 cent range, there’s the doubling, so we are somewhere shy of a billion dollars is what I was getting at earlier. So to drive us up to a 10 billion market cap would be a price of somewhere around maybe like $1300-$1400 per bitclout.

Bill Deignan  28:25

Wait, say that again, because I was about to ask something else.

Micah Spruill  28:29

I’m just showing you what the price of bitclout would be if we were to reach a 10 billion market cap this year. That would mean the token price would be somewhere between  $819 and $1638, which likely would be around 13 or 14 hundred dollars. I’ve done the math, that’s what it looks like. $10 billion market cap is kind of an arbitrary number I picked, but I’m just saying that I can totally see it fitting that this year in the middle of a bull market with the type of traction we’re seeing going on and the fact that it’s unique. I would not be surprise.

Bill Deignan  29:09

I tend to disagree, I’m more bullish I think. And I only say that because I just think there’s going to be such massive FOMO on this. Not so much FOMO in the form of people jumping in as an “Oh my God, I gotta buy that” thing. I think it’s going to come in the form of these influencers who are going to see their market cap that’s sitting there awaiting them and just piling in. It’s gonna be 1-2 one week, and 10 the next, and 100 the next type of thing.

Micah Spruill  29:46

I can see that.

Bill Deignan  29:49

You get in these clubhouse rooms and of course, people are hyping but I heard a guy the other day just talking about how he’s involve with a lot of influencers and working right now to get them on. They’re almost like smart investors. Apparently, for whatever reason, it’s not a “Hey I’m just gonna go get on my phone and do this”, It’s more of a strategy they start thinking through and I don’t really know if I understand it.

Micah Spruill  30:15

Yeah, you’re gonna see the influencers. They’ll be first because they can kind of operate autonomously. Some of them like the really big ones have legal teams and they’re gonna have to look at this, but I expect the big corporate brands are going to be kind of last to the show, simply because there’s so much red tape for them to be able to get on something like this.

Bill Deignan  30:37

Well, they’ve got to think about custody.

Micah Spruill  30:41

That too, yeah. Right now there’s no safe way to store this value, so you have a seed phrase and that’s it, there’s no cold storage or anything. And again, there’s a lot of unknown risks around who the team is and what they’re gonna do, and how this is gonna be release to the wild. So there could be some damage to a brand if they were to go claim their profile and start building it up and then all of a sudden, as the term is used in the industry, there could be a rug pulle where the founders abandon the project and whatnot. Now, the interesting thing about something like this is if the code is open-source, in the event that the founders left if the code is at least open-sourced, I think we have enough traction at this point that people would pick it up and carry it on. And they would just continue to build the project without the founders needing to be there. I don’t know that we’re there yet. To my knowledge, the code is not open source. I know that the blockchain, like you, can look at the block explorer, all that’s public, but the code itself, I don’t think it’s public. So if the founders were to leave right now, it would be toast. But I would assume they’re gonna open-source it pretty soon.

Bill Deignan  31:58

So custody-wise, you know, I start thinking about it, it’s hard enough for me as an individual to think about safeguarding keys, and the more value involved, that becomes more urgent. But what do you think about the possibility of a, pick any major influencer, we’ll use an athlete may be, say, LeBron James, I don’t know how many 10s of millions of followers he may have, and all of a sudden his coin, he’s got a market cap on this platform of $40 million, it’s not inconceivable, but he’s just treating his keys to the platform like he might treat his credentials to Twitter. Which isn’t enough. And he probably has great safeguards on that as well, I would hope, because nobody wants their Twitter hacked, especially a guy like that, but what if his keys get stolen and his bitclout gets liquidated into bitcoin, and off it goes? That to me is one of the big news stories of the year.

Micah Spruill  33:09

Absolutely. So right now it’s pretty safe because it’s a closed system. It’s centralize, so they could actually reverse transactions if something like that were to happen. That’s the beauty of a closed-loop system. What you’re talking about is when the platform actually is public and withdrawals are available and the whole nine yards. That’s where it gets really risky like you said because as soon as it’s compromised and tokens leave the platform in the form of Bitcoin or whatever, it is gone. So when you have a platform like this which is really meant to bring in the masses, like you said one of the folks you had on your platform recently was not a crypto guy before this and was kind of new to this space, I think you’re gonna see a lot of that. I’m seeing a lot of artists and musicians and those types of influencers joining. They’re kind of some of the early adopters in this. There’s a lot of entrepreneurs and tech guys and crypto guys, they’re pretty familiar with that, but when you start having artists and musicians and performers and celebrities joining like you’re starting to see now, a lot of them are crypto naive. So I think that it’s smart for the team to build this in kind of a walled garden right now, it’s like having bumper rails on so that in the event of hacks and issues, they can roll back the chain and fix that.

Bill Deignan  34:38

Well, I think it’s certainly- They’ve got to think about custody. How are they going to, you know, will there be a multi-sig part of this for a brand? It’s like, even on a small scale, if you and I decided to go in on a venture on this, either one of us could run off with the keys.

Micah Spruill  34:58

Absolutely

Bill Deignan  34:59

And we gotta have some sort of rock-solid agreement or protocol that we can follow so that we are protecting ourselves and each other. You magnify that by a multi-billion dollar brand and boards of directors and governance and compliance, that’s- it’s gonna be crazy. That’s part of why I’m enjoying doing this, just watching this thing unfold and talking to people about it.

Micah Spruill  35:25

Yeah, um, the more we talk about this, the more I realize that this thing is gonna have to be centraliz to some degree for a while. They can decentralize in a way of kind of like how ripple has done it, some of these centralized decentralized platforms where you have node operators who are other individuals or other corporations or companies. So they’re up-keeping the network and they’re getting paid to do that, they’re kind of the miners or the, you know, block producers. But you have a centralized team or foundation or organization that has at least some amount of, you know, 51% consensus control, or they have some sort of agreement with some of the other block producers, I mean, this is like what EOS eos.io has done, where they can collectively come together and vote and rollback things, I think that’s what you’re gonna have to have here. This cannot be fully decentralize like Bitcoin, I just don’t see how that’ll work, at least at this point in the game, because you do have to be able to protect against large hacks like that. You also have to be able to filter content that’s like, illegal. There’s some, you know, video or photo content that would just be straight illegal, you’ve got to be able to get that, you’ve got to be able to prune that off the platform. Um, years ago, I worked with the privacy platform that was building a peer-to-peer decentralized marketplace, and the biggest thing that regulators, you know, with our legal counsel kept coming back to was, you have to have a way to remove illegal goods. There’s no way around that because otherwise the team or the block producers are culpable in the event of something illegal. So there has to be a pruning mechanism where you can flag things and it gets deleted, or there has to be a council where they can go and vote to remove things or remove people. So I think- I don’t think, I know you’re going to have to have that sort of governance on this platform. You’re not going to have bitcoin decentralization. You just can’t, at least not right now.

Bill Deignan  37:47

Very interesting. Alright man, I sure appreciate the time. I’m pretty sure you and I need to go get some barbecue again pretty soon, or probably a steak. Come out here by me where the steak house I’ve been bragging about is for a while.

Micah Spruill  38:04

Yeah.

Bill Deignan  38:07

Alright, Micah. Thank you, man.

Micah Spruill  38:10

Thanks, Bill. It’s been fun.

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